Curse

Neo-LD · Jul 06, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

For a quick shot build like this, I think the best attribute layout is

11+3 Expertise
10+2 Marksmanship
9+1 Wilderness
4+1 Beastmastery (though the +1 doesnt do anything

)

However, Id love to have an 8 or 9 second TF, as opposed to my 7. But this would require 7 or 9 BM, and I dont know what to lower because all the other attributes are very important to the build as well. Seems like the others are necesary, and high level TF is just an indulgence. Thoughts?

theclam · Jul 06, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Coming from a Monk, let me just say that a bad self-heal like Troll Unguent probably isn't worth it, especially since Rangers are usually a low priority target. What I would recommend instead, since you aren't using a secondary at all, is to go R/Mo and use Smite Hex. You don't have to put any points into Smiting Prayers to use it and it only takes 5 energy and 1 second to cast. Removing something like Backfire would help me a lot more than healing yourself.

Neo-LD · Jul 07, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Better off using remove hex because of way better recharge. But taking a step back, there are about 10 ranger skills that go well in my (and other peoples) quick-shot build, so I dont think there will be room anyways.

Ender Ward · Jul 08, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Nothing really beats Quickshot + Tiger's Fury for pure damage output, if you have buff stacked arrows. Assuming you learn to time it correctly.

And if your Tiger's Fury is at 8 seconds, use a Dual Shot in the period of time where you're not under it's affect and it's stil recharging.

Quickening Zephyr + Quickshot + Tiger's Fury is even better, but, is detrimental to your own team's casters. You also won't be able to keep it up for long even with zealous.

Neo-LD · Jul 08, 2005, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Ward

Nothing really beats Quickshot + Tiger's Fury for pure damage output, if you have buff stacked arrows. Assuming you learn to time it correctly.

No one has ever took the time to explain exactly what the "timing" is...I dont usually play a QS ranger but this thread has inspired me to try one out, and this "timing" might be useful to know

So what is it?

Raiddinn Beatdropper · Jul 08, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

I may not be leet enough being only in a top 100 guild, but the whole leave the monks to die thing is just strange to me.

By that logic, shields up on a warrior would be worthless because he should be using his entire char for damage, even if the whole enemy team is like 8 rangers for instance?

Take care of your monks so they can take care of you I say.

Tsunamii Starshine

Ender Ward · Jul 08, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

and this "timing" might be useful to know

So what is it?

While you're under Tiger's Fury, hit quickshot just as your character is drawing to fire a normal attack. This normal attack will then immidiately be followed by the quickshot. There will be a slight pause afterwards, and your character will begin drawing the next normal attack ... you know what to do next.

Tiger's Fury is essential to this, so get it to 8-9 seconds. Use Dual Shot while it recharges. Buff stack your arrows to take advantage of the rate of fire.

Enigmatics · Jul 08, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

It's quite tedious to accomplish though, i've seen several barrage bots complain about the 1 second recharge on barrage.

Ender Ward · Jul 08, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

It doesn't act like Barrage. Barrage is too slow to activate.
The quickshot timing is not tedious at all. Becomes second nature after an hour of play or so.

Enigmatics · Jul 08, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Is it? they both have 1 second cooldowns; I assumed the way to use them was related.

Corwin · Jul 08, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Ward

Nothing really beats Quickshot + Tiger's Fury for pure damage output, if you have buff stacked arrows. Assuming you learn to time it correctly.

And if your Tiger's Fury is at 8 seconds, use a Dual Shot in the period of time where you're not under it's affect and it's stil recharging.

Quickening Zephyr + Quickshot + Tiger's Fury is even better, but, is detrimental to your own team's casters. You also won't be able to keep it up for long even with zealous.

Okay, I don't have Quick Shot yet, so I'm a little confused. It seems like Barrage would be as good or better for damage output. They both cost 5 energy, both recharge in 1 second - however, Barrage gets a damage bonus and Quick Shot doesn't, right?

Seems like that would make Barrage better in this circumstance even for single targets, and much better for grouped targets.

EDIT:
I forgot to mention I'm running a Ranger/Elementalist and using Conjure Fire for my damage buff, rather than Kindle or another prep.

Ender Ward · Jul 08, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Yes, but Quickshot activates 2x faster, that's what make the skill so good. Barrage on the other hand, activates like a normal attack skill, say a Penetrating Attack or Power Shot.

Quickshot is alot like Distracting Shot. It activates so fast it follows the normal attack very quickly, and so you're able to output more arrows in the same period of time.

You can even do better, you can start drawing the normal attack and hit Quickshot. As the normal attack completes and the Quickshot animation is in progress, hit Distracting Shot. You'll fire off all three in very rapid succession.
And the nice thing about buff stacking, is that your Distracting Shot may do "only" 15 damage, but stil carries the buffs and so does ok damage.

Since it's hard to interrupt a Monk's 1 second spells, especially with a bow, a neat trick to getting a skill disabled with Distracting Shot is this:

Make one sequence of normal + Quickshot attack a couple of time, you should have the monk down to 1/2 life. Now make your next sequence a normal + Quickshot + Distracting Shot chain.
The monk will just start his heal once the next normal attack and quickshot hits, so your distracing arrow will land right as he's executing the spell, about half the time. It doesn't work all the time, but I disable Healing Touch/Orison of Healing/Healing Breeze often enough to try.
Ofcourse you're stil unlikely to get Reversal of Fortune disabled, but things like Mark of Protection or Shield of Regeneration I do managed to knock out sometimes.

Ender Ward · Jul 08, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corwin

Okay, I don't have Quick Shot yet, so I'm a little confused. It seems like Barrage would be as good or better for damage output. They both cost 5 energy, both recharge in 1 second - however, Barrage gets a damage bonus and Quick Shot doesn't, right?

Barrage takes twice as long to activate. Your rate of fire suffers considerably as a result. Remember, Quickshot is very true to it's name. It's a quick ... shot. Have you ever fired off a Distracting Shot? Noticed how it follows your normal attack or attack skill immidiately? Quickshot behaves the same way.

Quote:

Seems like that would make Barrage better in this circumstance even for single targets, and much better for grouped targets.

Barrage is not too bad for PvE farming with Judge's Insight or Conjure. But for PvP, where you want to gank a single target asap, I'm not a fan of it. And it's definitely quite inferior to Quickshot in my experience. But you have to stack those buffs to take advantage of Quickshot.

Quote:

I forgot to mention I'm running a Ranger/Elementalist and using Conjure Fire for my damage buff, rather than Kindle or another prep.

Why not use both? In one of my Quickshot build iteraions, I did exactly that, Conjure Frost and Kindle Arrows were two out of three of my buffs.
I'm using a different, more efficient Quickshot build now, but that one was quite good too.

Corwin · Jul 08, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Ward

Barrage takes twice as long to activate. Your rate of fire suffers considerably as a result. Remember, Quickshot is very true to it's name. It's a quick ... shot. Have you ever fired off a Distracting Shot? Noticed how it follows your normal attack or attack skill immidiately? Quickshot behaves the same way.

I see. That's where my inexperience with quick shot was showing, then. Nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Ward

Barrage is not too bad for PvE farming with Judge's Insight or Conjure. But for PvP, where you want to gank a single target asap, I'm not a fan of it. And it's definitely quite inferior to Quickshot in my experience. But you have to stack those buffs to take advantage of Quickshot.

I suppose I also should have mentioned that most of my experience is in PvE. I'm learning PvP now, though it's been a bumpy ride so far

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Ward

Why not use both? In one of my Quickshot build iteraions, I did exactly that, Conjure Frost and Kindle Arrows were two out of three of my buffs.
I'm using a different, more efficient Quickshot build now, but that one was quite good too.

I did try this one using Poison Arrow instead of Barrage as my elite, but it seemed like the return wasn't worth the extra time it was taking to set it up. Maybe I just didn't have the rhythm/pattern (whatever you'd like to call it) down. I don't have quick shot yet, so I've been using barrage with conjure and it's been working okay.

Guess I'll go looking for quick shot to see how much improvement I can get out of it

Neo-LD · Jul 08, 2005, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Just wondering, but how effective would barbs and weaken armor be with a QS build, as opposed to kindle arrows? It usually stretches your attribtes too much to go with marks/expert/wild/beast/curses, which is the same reason I don like taking conjure flame on a R?E QS build. But if you take out Kindle, you can take out wilderness... would a QS ranger using barbs and weaken armor inflict more, less, or about the same damage?

Until I hear back on that, Im going to continue building my current QS build, which I plan to be:

Dual
Distracting
Quick
Tigers
Debilitating
Whirling
Kindle
Res Sig

Is that a good QS build? I was hoping to include more attack buffs, but I dont think I can stretch to that many attributes, and I dont know what I would take out anyways.